Gabe Lyons: Can the Church Shape the Culture?

When you’re talking to people who are leaders in different areas of culture, do they feel like they’re receiving support from their church? Or have they really had to make that connection for themselves, in saying, “This is how my faith informs my work”?

A growing number of churches are talking about this. I’m encouraged by that, but it’s still a small number, and there’s so much to be done. I think it’s one reason many young people have left the church. As they got into their 20s or 30s, they didn’t see that connection between the passion God put in their hearts—the talents and gifts they have, the things that motivate them—and their church experience. They didn’t see the church give much credence and value to that part of their life, so the church became this place to go for a sacred experience, but it has very little to do with their everyday lives. I am encouraged, though, because I see more churches really starting to recognize that challenge and trying to address it. I think we’re in a moment right now where the church is really trying to connect faith and work for people.

The “common good” is an old conception but it seems to inform a lot of what Q does. What is it about that phrase that inspired you?

The definition of the common good is “the most good for all people.” And I think it reminds us as Christians—who exist today in a very pluralistic setting—that we have to be concerned about our neighbors: those who don’t believe anything about Jesus, those who believe in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, just spirituality in general—that all of them are our concern. I think that starts to expand the church’s vision for its responsibility. Our mission isn’t simply to preserve what we have and hold on until eternity when we can leave the world. But we have a role to play in the world today.

How is advancing the common good different than the social gospel?

I think the social gospel was an idea that essentially didn’t recognize the power of the cross and resurrection and how the world is really redeemed. The social gospel told us to love our neighbors and do good, and that was part of how the world was redeemed. But it didn’t always recognize the power of sin and evil, and the necessity of the cross for true transformation. Of course, the emphasis on the social gospel was something of a pendulum swing away from a very fundamentalist view of the world that only focused on the cross and resurrection, that said our only role in the world is to get people to convert and believe a set of convictions. What our world today needs is a beautiful blend that says it’s both word and deed. I don’t pretend to think we’re going to get it perfect, but I think our hope is to start to bring those two responsibilities back into tension. To say, we’re about what Jesus can do in somebody’s life, but we’re not going to limit that to just a private, personal conversion. We believe your conversion calls you to do something more radical in the world—to bring that light, hope and grace into the places God has called you to minister in. Not just with words, but through actions. This is how God intends to transform the world.

It seems like one thing for the church to celebrate and commission people in their vocation when their vocation is very obviously serving people. But what about people working in, say, the fashion industry or in urban planning? How are these less “service-oriented” vocations also an extension of the church’s mission?

The church has been more than comfortable understanding the down-and-out, those who clearly need help. We have been much less comfortable with understanding the “up-and-in,” those who are doing just fine in our Western society. But, as Andy Crouch points out, if the gospel is only good news to those living in a broken world but it’s not good news to those who are materially comfortable and professionally successful—then the good news isn’t sufficient. I think the opportunity in our post-Christian, secular setting is to recognize how the gospel will go forward in those places of wealth too. Such a perspective will challenge us and push us to understand how, for example, the good news should play out some place like the fashion industry. There are leaders in that industry here in New York City who are deeply committed believers. They are pressing into the questions of how faith should inform their work, and so are seeking to transform the cultures within their organizations, to not pursue advertising that’s based on lust and greed alone, to actually start to value models as humans made in the image of God. These are very long processes for people to work through in places like that, but that’s a good example of the slow, persevering kind of love God has for all of creation.

What role can the church play in helping leaders begin to think this way about their work and their industries?

The question we can ask leaders in our churches about their industry is, what role would your cultural good play one day in the kingdom of God? What does fashion look like when all things are made new? Will there be fashion? What are the rules fashion will follow? What would urban planning look like? What will journalism look like? And on, and on. Just last week in New York City we hosted 15 different presenters and experts from New York City to educate 200 Christian leaders about what’s happening in their city—to answer these very kinds of questions. We had an incredible combination of designers and urban architects, people reinventing education, sanitation, journalism and new media. We brought those people together because we believe, as Christians, we have to be thinking more deeply about the work being done in all of these places. And as Christians working in these areas, we have to ask ourselves how we can approach our work more Christianly. Not to do, say, “Christian journalism”—which is putting the emphasis in the wrong place, making the word into an adjective or a label instead of an adverb, a way of doing. Instead, I think we can ask questions about how to do journalism Christianly, how to do fashion Christianly. How does my Christian love, and my understanding of the world and the brokenness of the world inform how I create an ad? … to avoid feeding on weaknesses or trying to “incent” people to buy based on envy, lust, greed or gluttony. Instead, can my ad inspire hope, love, charity? Those are deep questions. They don’t have easy answers. But they are the types of questions the church has got to help the leaders and cultural innovators in our pews answer for themselves and their work. It may be the only place that’s able to host that kind of conversation.

The Christian faith has so much to say about the rest of the world—about all of life, about what is good for the world. It truly offers a coherent worldview that makes sense of everything people are experiencing and really longing for, from their neighborhoods to their workplaces to their homes. And, I think, when people hear a gospel like that, it compels them to respond.

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